Is Christianity the enemy? (to Sam Webster)

20 Mar

Patheos hosts a blog called Pagan Restoration in which Sam Webster argues for the elimination of all Christian elements within Pagan practice. He pleads for a pure Paganism, and indirectly also for a pure Christianity. Sam Webster tells us bluntly to be serious and make our choice: be either a good Pagan or a good Christian for there is nothing good in between.

Paganism and Christianity are real things with real, established characteristics. To adhere to either of them requires certain commitments, without which you do not belong to either of them. (…)

Perhaps you are a Christian who has seen the enormous good that is in Paganism but missing from your religion, and you want some of that. Learn, then leave us and go reform your own religion; you may be its salvation. Perhaps you are a Pagan who has not been able to overcome the conditioning that tells you the Christian god-complex is good. (…) I suggest you invoke more: the Gods will save you from this delusion.

The battle lines are drawn, and they are neat and tidy.

This purity appeals to many. After years of debating about Paganism is and isn’t and about what it should be, it sure is nice to get such a clear answer. Pagans are those who seek to eliminate all traces of Christianity in order to create a new Pagan renaissance. Sam Webster uses the word ‘restoration‘, which has less of an appeal than renaissance, but it is an honest choice of word. He is not pleading as much for a rebirth of Pagan art, culture and religion, but for a restoration of the Pagan community. It reminds me of that other, nineteenth century Restoration Movement which sought to unify all Christians into a single body. The message is: let us unite and not be or do Christian.

Mind you, I am pagan and a Pagan. I personally have little interest in Christianity apart from my general interest in religion, history and ancient books. But religious or cultural purity is not only a bad idea, it is an impossible one. It has been tried before and it has failed. Cultures that have been boxed up don’t thrive. They die. As Webster himself noted, one of the important roots of modern Paganism lies in the Florentine Renaissance. How did this rebirth come to be? The immigration of Greek scholars helped. The increased flow of knowledge, books, people and money helped. In fact, Johan Huizinga has argued that the Renaissance halted exactly when the obsession with classical purity became too extreme.

Sam Webster states that the system of Christianity is the enemy. In a way I can sympathise with this statement. I think many Pagans are involuntarily influenced by ages and ages of Christian history. Galina Krasskova has written often and eloquently about ridding herself from ‘the monotheist filter’, this heritage of Christianity. In no unsure words, she calls it a war. To be honest, her writing often makes me highly uncomfortable. But, in essence, I do believe a world without extreme monotheism would be a better world. And I do believe that is important for us Pagans and polytheists to examine our automatic thinking  and its origins. The monotheistic word view is a my enemy of sorts.

However, Sam Webster does not only declare war on the system of Christianity, he also seems intend to declare war on those Pagans (who in his mind, are fake pagans) who include any element of Christian heritage in their Pagan practice. These Pagans are declared infiltrators and enemies of our religion.

Therefore I can only conclude that those of you who are still including Christianity in any manner in your Paganism are either Christians coming to be fed what your own religion can’t provide or infiltrators diluting and destroying our religion.

It is the age-old notion of the sheep in wolf’s clothing, also popular among many Christians. Matthew 7:15: “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.” Is this attitude of suspicion helpful towards strengthening the Pagan battle lines? Surely not. Furthermore, Webster himself is also not entirely clear where the boundary lies. Rendering the Christian God “its due honors” is a good thing according to Webster, but as any concession towards Christianity strengthens the Christian system, how can this be? Is one allowed to listen to music of Christian composers or to enjoy ecclesiastical architecture? According to Catholic doctrine churches are not just buildings, they remain always houses of God. But why do we have to accept any Christian doctrine?

P. Sufenas Virius Lupus offers an alternative to this essentialist closed-doors policy, an alternative that is far more effective in battling monotheist thinking and yet does not exclude Pagans who find inspiration within Christian traditions. His reply is the following:

You’re intelligent enough to know that people don’t always get what their gods are or say or want right, and the less direct contact they have with their gods, the more likely they are to fall into such errors of human arrogance and intransigence. The Christian system, as you say, is based upon belief, not experience, and thus they don’t know their gods as well as they think they do (and the people who wrote the Gospels and other parts of their holy books may not have had that direct contact either), thus why should we trust anything that comes from their mouths, pens, or holy books as in any way reflective of their gods?

Why does Sam Webster concede to Christian thinking? We Pagans seem to lack theological interpretations of our own. P. Sufenas stresses that we are in no way required to accept the tenets of Muslim or Christian theology. We fear, it seems, to think for ourselves. and to make statements about other people’s gods and religions. Adopting Christian terminology gives it credence. Here Sufenas rightly states that to adopt  “the terms they have created to prove their own exclusive possession of truth is not only inappropriate, it is actively damaging to our own theological strength as polytheists.

Yes, there is a war, but it is a war of language. I will always stand on the side of the many – many stories, many metaphors, many truths, many gods – against the one. Is Sam Webster fighting the same fight? I think not.

We should set free the gods, all gods.

Other responses to Webster’s Why you can’t worship Christ and be Pagan:

    1. Sannion – I’m in a mood
    2. Sihathor – Why I can’t look outside my temple (…)
    3. Jason Mankey – Jesus and Pagans: A Tired and Divisive Debate
    4. Warboar – Christo-Paganism and You
    5. John Halstead – “Waiter! There’s some Christianity in my Pagan soup!”
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8 Responses to “Is Christianity the enemy? (to Sam Webster)”

  1. aediculaantinoi March 20, 2013 at 11:49 pm #

    Like Sannion, it upsets me that someone like Sam, who is often cited as being one of the up-and-coming pagan leaders/thinkers, could be so blind as to not realize that in speaking this way about monotheism, he’s adopting a monotheist form of thought.

    It also upsets me, as someone who has talked with Sam and has some degree of respect for him, that he’s utterly refusing to see the distinction between deities and worshippers/institutions, and in taking this “insiders are always right about their theology and history” viewpoint which is not academic or philosophical or anything…for some, this sort of relativism passes for respect, or as a necessity of interfaith understanding; but, it’s not really necessary for either respect or interfaith understanding, and it most certainly isn’t necessary for building our own polytheistic theologies.

    Because I’m a process theologian, and someone interested in every form of social justice, I think that the best we as polytheists can do is liberate all gods to be what they actually are, no matter the religion or tradition they might emerge from. I think most Hindus are right about their gods, and most Shinto practitioners are right about their kami, and most Afro-Diasporic practitioners are right about the lwa and the orishas, etc. I find a great deal of fault in Christianity’s theologies, ethics, doctrines, and institutions, and so why in the world would I think they’d be right about what they say of their gods? (And the same is true of Islam.)

    But, again (and this is to Webster, not to you!), why should we accept the Muslim doctrine that the Jewish god, the Christian god, and Allah are all the same? Why should we accept the Christian doctrine that the Jewish god and the Christian First Person of the Trinity are the same? They know exactly who our gods are: false and non-existent, or the Devil in diguise, or djinn who are tricking us…and, they’re just plain wrong about that, so why would we even consider they may be right about their own gods, when it is clear they don’t even really know what gods are?

    This utterly baffles me, to be honest…

  2. Christine Hoff Kraemer March 22, 2013 at 3:31 pm #

    Thanks for this thoughtful response! I’m glad Sam’s article has started such good conversations elsewhere in the blogosphere — it’s what I hope for when Patheos publishes something controversial.

    • Soliwo March 26, 2013 at 11:27 am #

      Thank you for reading dear Christine. Yes, I do enjoy some verbal sparring. I hope Sam Webster will also read and react to some of these responses. I hope he himself will continue the conversation on his own blog on Patheos and other blogs as well. You are welcome to invite him to Pagan Layman ;).

  3. oogenhand November 16, 2013 at 6:51 pm #

    Reblogged this on oogenhand.

Trackbacks/Pingbacks

  1. “Waiter! There’s some Christianity in Pagan soup!” | The Allergic Pagan - March 22, 2013

    [...] and in doing so you will inevitably inevitably define one or both too narrowly for some people.  (Another great response to Webster was posted by Pagan Layman, “Is Christianity the Enemy?&#822….  Check it out [...]

  2. Weekly round-up: the Christopagan edition | The House of Vines - March 22, 2013

    [...] questions whether Sam has got the right enemies in [...]

  3. Links and Stuff (and Cats!) - March 30, 2013

    [...] removed from John and I’s opinions was the response from the Pagan Layman. Is Christianity the Enemy? contains my second favorite line in this whole debate: “We should set free the gods, all [...]

  4. Why I am a Neo-Pagan, or One thing I agree with Sam Webster about | The Allergic Pagan - March 31, 2013

    [...] it is a “restoration” or, as the Pagan Layman suggests, a “renaissance”, the point is: Webster wants Paganism to save the the world.  And I feel the [...]

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